Online Hearing Aids

[qwertz1]

Hello all,

I am new to this community and I have been looking around the internet for pricing on Hearing Aids. My wife tells me that I have needed hearing aids for quite some time now :rolleyes: I was wondering if anyone had had experience with http://www.aidright.com. Their prices seem to be lower than Hearingplanet.com. Another good website is http://www.ahearingaid.com. Does anyone else know of any other websites where I can look at prices of hearing aids or have any experience with these internet companies?

Thank you!

[BluSu]

Personally, I would be afraid of buying HA online as there is so much adjusting and you need to be able to talk face to face with whomever you buy from. Also, I am trying an open ear (BTE) Rexton Revera and it will cost me $1895.00; I checked one of your links and they list it at $1899.00. Really no savings and, as I said, I would be very careful of buying online. I buy other merchandise online and have only had a couple of bad experiences, however, your health and hearing are something that you do not need even one bad experience. I would check around with my local specialist's, gather literature, ask prices and keep going to one that will let you try HA with money back guarantee until I found something that I could live with for now. I have tried four HA that did not work for me and now trying the Rexton and thinking that it might be OK. The Rexton is on the low end of the others that I have tried as I tried one that cost me $3000.00 and it was not for me, so I returned it. Just my humble opinion as I know that some people go the online route. ;)

[ed121]

One unique on line (Internet) company, is AmericaHears.com. The are a small mfg in Pennsylvania. Have a superb reputation. They sell top of the line aids for $800 to $1200 each. 100% satisfaction 60 day 100% refund. Program tweaks via fast DHL/FedX or instantly over Internet. For those comfortable with computers you can self tweak with supplied program and interface box. Try em you have nothing to lose.

Also check Costco. They have several top brands at heavily discounted prices. Salaried licensed fitters on hand to set and adjust the aids.

Also Genesis.com has a good reputation.

For rock bottom prices, check bidbybid.com. They will initially set the aid to your audiogram....but after that you must find a local pro to tweak them. Aids are priced at less than 50% of what an Audiologist would charge....but you get no hand holding either. 15 day 100% refund.

Personally, I would rather buy from these discount guys than the chain hearing aid stores with their predatory salesmen.

FYI I have no connection with any of these guys. I am just a very experienced user with a acoustic and electronics background. Ed

[ZCT]

Personally, I would rather buy from these discount guys than the chain hearing aid stores with their predatory salesmen.

I really have to take exception to this kind of nonsense. If you work as a hearing professional in the USA and act like a 'predatory salesman' you will be struck off very quickly. This means that you are committing a criminal act by fitting a patient with hearing aids. You could be arrested for that kind of thing.

I've met some hearing professionals who suck, but then I've met some medical doctors that suck. I assure you, none of the large chains are going to put up with someone breaking ethical guidelines for too long, because it is not worth it for the liability issues and the fact that they could get in trouble with the licensing board.

I don't know what your beef is with the industry, but I don't know quite why you keep coming on here to tell everyone to buy some cheap crap online, and never seek the opinion of a licensed, qualified hearing professional.

I can only assume you had a bad experience, but this doesn't mean that everyone is out to get you. And in life you usually get what you pay for. Hearing aids are no exception to this rule.

[ed121]

ZCT: If you have any connection financial or otherwise with the hearing aid business, please be so kind as to let your readers know this....so they may judge if you have any bias.

I have no connection whatsoever with the HA business. I have had 35 years experience using aids sold to me by 6 or 7 Audiologists. All of them were competent, with a sincere desire to help my hearing. I would say that I have not had any bad experience with them....though one Aud D sold me aids improperly adjusted that almost blew my head off. Other than that, I have great respect for them.

Having read the posts on other hearing aid (HA) forums, I have concluded that the licensed salesmen/dispensers at some of the national HA chain stores are predatory....taking advantage of the typical uninformed hard of hearing. I am given to understand that these licensed salesmen/dispensers are not salaried but operate on a commission basis. That they receive more money if they sell the expensive item. If taking advantage of the mostly elderly hard of hearing (hoh) is not predatory what is?

In general, selling hearing aids is a business that wraps itself in the mantle of the medical profession. Anyone that sells an item retail for profit is in business. Just because a dispenser of aids has a license does not mean they are holy....pure....or for sure professional. These people have to eat, educate their kids, make house payments, pay the office rent.

I am sure you are aware that prior to 1977 (the year the FDA declared hearing aids a Medical Device/prosthesis), it was considered unethical for a licensed Audiologist to sell hearing aids. Only after the states were lobbied to pass restrictive regulations was it profitable for them to sell aids. Now virtually all HA professionals sell aids at retail for profit. Painting them as purely professionals is not accurate. Maybe the guys and gals at the University Clinics can claim this holy than thou stuff....but not the average audiologist or licensed dispenser. That doesn't mean they are bad people...it just means that a hard of hearing person should recognize that they are putting their trust in the hands of a business person....not a saint.

just my opinion, Ed

[ZCT]

“ZCT: If you have any connection financial or otherwise with the hearing aid business, please be so kind as to let your readers know this....so they may judge if you have any bias.”

- If you click on my handle it states quite clearly in my public profile for this forum what I do for a living, when I became qualified, and even what I like to do when I am not at work. I don’t feel that I need to reiterate this information as a preface to every post. You on the other hand have just appeared on this board eleven days ago, have posted no public profile about yourself, and have made a string of inflammatory, and often ill-informed comments about the hearing aid industry.

“I have no connection whatsoever with the HA business. I have had 35 years experience using aids sold to me by 6 or 7 Audiologists. All of them were competent, with a sincere desire to help my hearing. I would say that I have not had any bad experience with them....though one Aud D sold me aids improperly adjusted that almost blew my head off. Other than that, I have great respect for them.”

- So on that basis why do you keep attacking professionals calling them predatory and stating that their services and products are grossly overpriced?

“Having read the posts on other hearing aid (HA) forums, I have concluded that the licensed salesmen/dispensers at some of the national HA chain stores are predatory...”

- For a man who keeps claiming to be ‘scientific’ in approach, it is remarkable how easily and often you jump to such extreme conclusions without any real basis in fact. Have you any idea what percentage of hearing aid users actually visit Internet forums to post their opinion? And of that percentage, how many do you think are motivated because they feel they have been ripped off? I’d say it is far more likely that someone is going to post on a forum because they are mad, than happy.

When I meet a patient for the first consultation, I am with them for two hours. In the past 12 months I can think of only two who admitted to doing any real research online. So it’s certainly not a high percentage of my patients. Maybe you have some statistics for us to back up your claims?

“taking advantage of the typical uninformed hard of hearing.”

- Frankly, if people choose to remain uninformed that is really their problem. Because I accept that such predatory salespeople exist in the industry. In fact it is hard to find an industry that doesn’t have a bad apple in it. But this is all the more reason for people to inform themselves. Most professionals, including myself, would have no problem with more informed patients.

“I am given to understand that these licensed salesmen/dispensers are not salaried but operate on a commission basis.”

- The way that corporations choose to operate themselves, doesn’t make the staff evil. But using logic like this you could tarnish almost any medical or semi-medical profession. A dentist will make a lot more money if he convinces teen’s parents to have the teen fitted with braces in borderline cases. A doctor will make more money generally if he sees more patients, and encourages a patient to visit more often than necessary.

This is America, capitalism rules. This doesn’t make it right, but it doesn’t make hard working professionals wrong, predatory, greedy or unprofessional.

“That they receive more money if they sell the expensive item.”

- In most things in life, you get what you pay for. Certainly in the lineup of hearing aids my company offers there is a direct correlation between price and capability. So in fact it is true in 90% of my patient’s cases that the more they pay, the better they will hear. Hearing better is why they came to see me. If I encourage them to buy cheaply, I am in essence doing them a disservice. That said, just this week I encouraged a patient to select one above the cheapest digital hearing we build. I informed them that beyond that level, based on their loss and lifestyle they were unlikely to tell the difference.

“If taking advantage of the mostly elderly hard of hearing (hoh) is not predatory what is?”

- Of course taking advantage of the elderly hard of hearing is predatory and wrong. Those who do this in an unethical manner risk losing their license temporarily or forever.

“In general, selling hearing aids is a business that wraps itself in the mantle of the medical profession. Anyone that sells an item retail for profit is in business.”

- Well then you’ve just included all doctors, nurses, and medical personal in America in this umbrella then. Because in the entire medical profession a service or product is offered, for a price. In America this price is often not even known or understood up front. The service is given, a bill is over inflated and sent out, the insurance company refuses to pay for as much as they can, and the balance is dumped in the patient’s lap. If they cannot pay or they refuse to pay, the debt is turned over to a collections agency that will harass the patient until they get paid. This debt will be recorded on the patient’s credit for years, which will lower their credit score, and therefore increase the cost of all their borrowing, and often insurance costs. Thus this medical debt can cost the patient thousands of dollars over the years. As I’m sure you are aware medical debt is the number one cause of personal bankruptcy in the US.

At least in my profession, all my consultations are free and without obligation, and if a product or service is offered, it comes with a 30 day money back guarantee, no hidden costs, and a fixed and agreed cost up front. This is more than can be said for 80% of the medical industry.

So I ask you again, why your beef with this industry?

“Just because a dispenser of aids has a license does not mean they are holy....pure....or for sure professional. These people have to eat, educate their kids, make house payments, pay the office rent.”

- And each and every one of them know that once false move and they may lose their license along with the very manner that they pay the above mentioned bills. Only an idiot would take that risk with ethics.

Do idiots exist? Of course they do. Should a buyer beware? Absolutely. Should you be slamming an entire industry and the professionals working in it simply because you have seen some disgruntled people complaining in Internet forums? No.

[ed121]

ZCT: Well said.

I think what gets me so down on this HA industry is the fact that the majority of people who need aids in the USA....about 21 million people....80% of the hoh....do not own aids. These are human beings suffering in some degree of isolation mostly because they can't afford the remedy.

Now that tells me something is wrong with the system as a whole.

Perhaps, I don't have my gun aimed at the right culprits. But something is wrong with a set-up that ends up with the cost of a vital necessity being priced way above what comparable electronic items sell for. Even if you add in the cost of servicing the price is still out of line with comparable technical services available in the USA. $4,600 to $6,000 for a pair of miniature amplifiers even with service is, in my opinion, way out of line..

And again, the system kills innovation of simple low cost self-adjusting aids, when such an item is possible with today's technology. While such aids will not be the perfect 100% answer for every type of loss......even a 50% improvement would help millions return to society.

FYI: Personally, I can afford any aid. In fact I literally have a drawer full of aids I have used over the years... Right now I have three high end aids that I have purchased and am testing. I have at home a full set of audio test gear, including a dedicated PC and HiPro. Ed

[ZCT]

Just to comment on one of the issues raised here, please consider this:

If you actually take a look at the bottom line profit of a typical hearing aid company, it's not really out of line with any other business.

Similarly if you take a look at a typical hearing aid practice like mine, take the gross profit, and then take a look at the bottom line, we are not making hand over fist as you might expect. We are frugal, I have only one assistant for two offices. I earn a good living, but certainly nothing earth shattering.

If the prices we charged were really so out of line, I think I'd be making a lot more money and so would the owners of the business. But I've seen the figures, and the bottom line is no greater than I would expect for an optician, dentist, chiropractor or any other professional service type of business.

As to the take up of hearing aids in America. Cost may not be the only factor. Remember that no one WANTS to wear a hearing aid unless they have to. The last statistic I read was that a typical patient waits seven years from the onset of a hearing loss before they get tested with a view to buying aids.

And finally, as I have already stated, the American health care system is sick and is in great need of reform. If you want to get annoyed, take a look at the movie Sicko.

[Beth]

Hi,

Just wanted to throw in my two cents here. I'm sure there are plenty of hearing health professionals where profit comes before the best interest of the patient, but then there are the others who really do care and make life with a hearing loss just a little bit easier for us. I grew up with a hearing loss and the Audiologist that I had for 25 years, (from when I was ten years old until last year) went above and beyond for me. He squeezed me in when he didn't have any appointments, went in on his days off if I wasn't able to get to him, my best interest (and all of his other patients) was his top priority, that was clearly obvious. Growing up with a hearing loss can prove to be a very challenging time, yet his positive influence on me helped me immensly. (He moved and will be retiring soon, so I had to find a new audiologist, but he warned me to be careful of those who only have profit in mind).

From reading through all of the posts on these boards, ZCT, you seem like one of the ones who really does care about the best interest of your patients, so good for you. You're probably making more of a difference than you even know.

Beth

[ZCT]

From reading through all of the posts on these boards, ZCT, you seem like one of the ones who really does care about the best interest of your patients, so good for you. You're probably making more of a difference than you even know.

Beth

Thank you, I appreciate your comment.

[xbulder]

i would not suggest buying aids on line, it is important to remember that you are bound to whatever you buy for the next x# years. Intelligent fitting is about matching the need of the client with the different products out there.

I perform real ear measurements and re fit most of my instruments using a suround sound. It has been my experience that it makes a diference. Ofcourse there are clients where little work is require, but in my case
this has not been the Rule.

Anyhow, who takes the impressions? who makes the counceling?
________
DEPAKOTE CLASS ACTION (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/depakote/)

[JgearyAud]

Just a note, I havnet heard anything good about America Hears. Their hearing aids are cheaply made and do not work as well as other major hearing aid manufacturers. I have had two patients come into my clinic with useless America Hears hearing aids. One of them spent around $800 on his America Hears hearing aid. Not only did the aid not work properly, it sounded terrible.

He thought that because of his horrible America Hears hearing aid that hearing aids couldnt help him. I fit him with a new MicroTech Radius, and he was astonished. He loved his new hearing aids, and told me that he learned an $800 dollar lesson - never to buy hearing aids through America Hears.

From what I can tell, the problem with America hears is that you dont see a professional. This is absolutely essential. Hearing aids are extremely difficult to program correctly - and I have been doing it for 23 years now! If you are going to buy hearing aids online, at least go with a company that sends you to a local professional.

[xbulder]

I agree 100%, while it is possible to fit hearing aids over the net.
There is no substitute for professional help.
The do it yourselt - your love you should take the impression sounds scary to me....
________
HALF-BAKED (http://half-baked.com)

[ed121]

jqueryaud:

I consider your post about the America Hears aids to be completely inaccurate and misleading....and also as you are an Audiologist .....self serving.

Please refer to a very active forum: hohadvocates for an accurate assessment of America Hears. You will find high praise for their aids and services. And even a few who found their aids did not work well for their particular loss.

May I respectfully, point out that among the top brands of aids 20% are returned as unsatisfactory and an unknown quantity are consigned to the top dresser drawer as useless.

No aid is perfect. No aid will restore perfect hearing.

America Hears aids are priced at about half of what a typical Audiologist charges. They set the aid based on your audiogram. Adjustments and tweaking are done instantly over the user's computer, or by overnight FedX/DHL. For those that are computer literate, they offer all the info, software, and a interface for self-programing.

America Hears offers 100% 60 day satisfaction guarantee's with 100% refund. They have a superb track record.

Please do not run down a good small American manufacturer....they deserve better.

FYI: I am not in anyway connected with the hearing aid industry. I am just a user of aids with a technical and business background and 35 years of experience with various brands and many fine Audiologist/dispensers. Ed

[xbulder]

tecnically speaking - they are not a manufacturer....
Say if i contact lisound place an order for 100 aids and I ask them to put
my name on their box for example. Im I consider a manufacturer?
I know the GN group makes aids for you if you come up with a large enough order - what does that really make you?
When I think a manufacturer I think of a company which buys the componets, has an audiological team which creates products and
develops the software and provide support
Is this right? Maybe Im wrong what do you guys think?
________
Nexium class action lawsuit (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/nexium/)

[ed121]

Xbolder: Me thinks you speak without knowledge of the facts.

The America Hears factory is open for inspection, at 806 Beaver St.,Bristol, PA. I have not visited them but numerous posters on the hohadvocate forum have visited them, and described the plant and facilities. They build their own product.

They have staff engineers, audiologists, laboratory, and service repair people. I am told that the factory is no different than the big guys like Phonak, Siemens, etc, except it is much smaller. They buy components from the same sources used by the major brands and assemble them in the factory in Bristol. They have their own unique algorithms and fitting software which I have used.

I am sure you know that there are only a few manufacturers of the main hearing aid chips (DSP) in the whole world. I am not aware that any hearing aid mfg makes their own DSP chips. To the best of my knowledge, every factory buys their chips from these same few large fabricators, with the possible exception of giant Siemen's. (Chip mfg is very expensive and difficult....Like Intel, AMC, Sony, etc.) What makes the brands different is mostly in the control algorithms (firmware).

Incidentally, I am told that 40% of the aids from the major brands are actually assembled in China. Not that there is any thing wrong with that because I have been assured that the big Chinese assemblers have modern clean well run factories. (I have a relative that is constantly in China consulting). Ed

[xbulder]

true i do not know that specific company,
and how they operate.....
Odly enough they are not part of himsa
________
Love advice advice (http://www.love-help.org/love-advice/)

[JgearyAud]

Ed, ever take a good hard look at the HOH advocate forums that you so proudly proclaim?

You will notice that there is an overwhelming bias towards America Hears. Ever wonder why? The forum itself is OWNED by America Hears. They have writers in there purposely promoting America Hears because they own the forum. That forum is ANYTHING but unbiased.

And as a RETIRED Doctor of Audiology, I strongly discourage that you by hearing aids from America Hears. I have heard horrifying stories of people doing impressions on themselves.

One man got his wife to do an ear impression on him to send off to an online "manufacturer" of hearing aids. Neither he nor his wife had any experience in doing ear impressions. What they both failed to do was inspect the ear canal and ear drum. The man had a perforation (a hole) in his eardrum. When the putty material went into his ear, it went through the eardrum and into the middle ear - covering the bones of the middle ear.

When the wife pulled the material out, the fragile bones of his middle ear also came out - along with the outer skin to the cochlea, and his inner ear fluid drained out from his ear.

To make a long story short, the man now is completely deaf in that ear. Had he gone to an audiologist or a doctor, they would have instantly recognized that he needed medical attention and wouldnt have put putty material in his ear. This is why doctors exist Ed.

Now, I do realize that Hearing Aids are an expensive investment. I liken them, however, to buying a good mattress. Buying a good mattress is an investment into better sleep and a better life. The same thing goes for hearing aids. Of course there are people out there that overcharge for hearing aids and will rip people off to make a few extra bucks (and unfortunately this is all too common in the hearing aid industry).

But I cannot stress enough NOT to buy hearing aids through America Hears or through Lloyds hearing aids. Now, there are other websites out there that offer more reasonable prices for their hearing aids AND send you to a local professional. If you are looking for better prices, this might be a better alternative.

Also, when you buy a hearing aid through America Hears, who is going to service your hearing aids? You cant find a local professional that can even service a hearing aid from them. Its not like a Siemens or a Oticon, NO ONE works with them.

So to sum it all up, if you are shopping online for hearing aids, make sure ABOVE ALL that they send you to a local PROFESSIONAL and that have major brands of hearing aids so that you can ensure that you can get continued and ongoing service from anyone in the country no matter where you live.

[xbulder]

there is no substitute for professional help, Some of the audi took the trouble to get training from collegue, masters and now AUD programs to get the proficiency enough to do a good job and make a good recomendation.

While it is posible to fit some clients with a first fit approach, what is true for the individual is not true for in generall. Sorry but i respectfully disagree, I
would be really concern about the do it your self impresions...

Is this even legal? Does this company inform its clients what could happend
if the impression is not done in the right way? Just courios?
________
VAPORIZER-INFO (http://johan-luis.tumblr.com/)

[ed121]

Yes it is true that taking an impression is fraught with danger. I can testify to that. Some time ago I had mold impression performed by a usually very competent Aud D (Doctorate in Audiology) and he had put too much pressure on the insertion tube and when the mold hardened it was pressing onto my ear drum. Quite painful to remove. Could have perforated my ear drum. Despite this I would still advise anyone needing a mold to have a professional perform the task.

Regards America Hears owning hoh advocates forum. The facts are that hoh advocates forum is privately owned and operated and has no business connection with any manufacturer. The original owner died just recently and his family has taken over as administrators. Just nice decent American family people.

Look: You guys that earn your living as Audiologists and contribute to a forum advising the uninformed public have a responsibility to get your facts straight before publishing.

I think there is room for all types of distribution and fitting of hearing aids. Those professionals in the field that lobby and attempt to restrict a hoh user's choices are slowly but surely going to be disappointed in the next few years. The computer literate, tech savvy boomers are not going to take to kindly to having their choices limited. The Costco's and the Walmart's etc. will slowly but surely invade the field. The internet suppliers will prosper in the hearing aid field just as they have in virtually every other area.

My personal prediction is that Audiologists will still be in short supply to service the children, the infirm, the diseased, the severe/profound and the affluent. Those that have an uncomplicated SNHF loss (the majority) will have the choice of using over-the-counter partial solutions as well as the more expensive professionals. just my opinion, Ed

[Gale]

Today I ordered a set of Freedom AD LOF hearing aids from America Hears after learning about them here. Next week I should know more about my decision. :)

I did learn they have 3 audiologists and 4 fitters on staff.

[BayBeTime]

you should look into www.AccuToneUSA.com

american technicians in south america.

just sent them your ear molds, no upfront costs!

Delivery COD

amazing, i purchased a 32 channel ITE for $589

[Gale]

BayBeTime what is your objective posting here?

In looking through their website even their $1600 aid was not 32 channel plus it was based on old digital technology. Did I miss something when reviewing the site?

OK no reply needed because I can see you spammed the entire forum today.

[desperado_83706]

Gale,
I am interested, how are they working out for you? There is no way I can afford to purchase hearing aids locally. Yet at a teacher it has become very difficult to hear my students. I desperately need something. I've tried Ringstop, an herbal remedy, with very limited results. I had a hearing test done a few years ago and at that time was a good candidate for hearing aids. I like the option of being able to reprogram them, to a point, at home with my own computer because I know my hearing has gotten worse and suspect it will change again.

[Gale]

desperado today is only the 8th day and two days I did not wear them due to mowing and other outside activities like washing the motor home.

The brain is adjusting quite well and Wednesday evening it did some in depth program changes and was pleased but today will be the first day out with the major tweaks.

I think anyone needs to expect it will take as much as 30 days before the sounds you never wanted to hear get tuned out by the brain. I want to hear better but not be blown away with rattles, slamming doors, etc. :)

The America Hears aids are better technology, audiologists are great and like you I just did not have $K-$K to spend when AH is only $2350. That is still a lot of money to me but I have been working from home a lot just because it was getting harder and are harder to hear others especially in meetings.

I would not want a set of hearing aids that I could not adjust at home or in the office where I am using them. Aids adjusted for the best hearing over the entire range is one thing but what if you do not want to hear certain frequencies. Dropping the K Hz amplification by 5 db really helped me with some sounds that really got on my nerves.

Function over form works for me. :)

How long has it been since you have had a hearing test?

[JKallears]

I have been wearing Miracle Ear in-canal for 6 years.
On 10/30/08, I faxed my audiogram to America Hears. Doing your own ear molds is tricky to say the least, even with help. A couple days ago, the new aids Freedom AD arrived FedEx, along with CD etc to program them. They fit well, looks good...
The booklet for "Getting Started" did not show the model I got, so there was some time figuring out how to begin. I installed, downloaded, installed updates, registered... and tried to start adjusting. But "programmer not found," and I could go no further. Hubby (software engineer) spent time on it, gave up. I called AH, and after Alex checked everything out, he realized I had been sent an outdated programmer. Won't work. So a new one has to be sent.
Today I was out for maybe half an hour and wouldn't you know FedEx came and wouldn't leave the package without my signature. No door tag accepted, and I'll be gone all day tomorrow.
Hope it gets better, I'll let you know.

[GrampaDennis]

Obviously I'm missing something. What does "RunScape Money" have to do with HA's? :confused: I really must be old not to figure it out. :(

Shi-Ku Chishiki ShiKu.Chishiki@Gmail.com

We've been getting some "spam" posts occasionally, which have absolutely nothing to do with the subject matter of our forum. That was one of them.

[hearagainusa]

I have been in the biz 8 years and am licensed in 2 states to dispense. I trained for the largest privately held biz in the country for 3 years and I hate to tell you but their ARE predatory salesman all over the US in this field. Anyone charging over $4k for a top of the line set of aids is part of the problem. If anyone goes to a place for a test and is pressured to get aids today and pay an extreme amount of money when they need not...that is predatory...you should know this being in the biz..you should have people coming in all the time like I do in my practice telling the stories of "he said I had to pay $8k for aids,that I would go deaf if I didnt get them and if i didnt buy today the price would go up in 2 days"...while unfortunate and not fair to genaralize you or I into this broad brush stroke....it is the reality in many...many hearing aid offices and will only be overcome in time by ethical practices and fair prices. These are the steps I am unteraking in building my new company. So far 40 units month the last 3 with top of the line units at 50% off retail. This is the new wave of the biz and will be here to stay once it takes hold...again I am not lumping you into the category the other poster listed but c'mon you need to be real...you hear those stories all day or should if you are busy enough

[gkumar]

“ZCT: If you have any connection financial or otherwise with the hearing aid business, please be so kind as to let your readers know this....so they may judge if you have any bias.”

- If you click on my handle it states quite clearly in my public profile for this forum what I do for a living, when I became qualified, and even what I like to do when I am not at work. I don’t feel that I need to reiterate this information as a preface to every post. You on the other hand have just appeared on this board eleven days ago, have posted no public profile about yourself, and have made a string of inflammatory, and often ill-informed comments about the hearing aid industry.

“I have no connection whatsoever with the HA business. I have had 35 years experience using aids sold to me by 6 or 7 Audiologists. All of them were competent, with a sincere desire to help my hearing. I would say that I have not had any bad experience with them....though one Aud D sold me aids improperly adjusted that almost blew my head off. Other than that, I have great respect for them.”

- So on that basis why do you keep attacking professionals calling them predatory and stating that their services and products are grossly overpriced?

“Having read the posts on other hearing aid (HA) forums, I have concluded that the licensed salesmen/dispensers at some of the national HA chain stores are predatory...”

- For a man who keeps claiming to be ‘scientific’ in approach, it is remarkable how easily and often you jump to such extreme conclusions without any real basis in fact. Have you any idea what percentage of hearing aid users actually visit Internet forums to post their opinion? And of that percentage, how many do you think are motivated because they feel they have been ripped off? I’d say it is far more likely that someone is going to post on a forum because they are mad, than happy.

When I meet a patient for the first consultation, I am with them for two hours. In the past 12 months I can think of only two who admitted to doing any real research online. So it’s certainly not a high percentage of my patients. Maybe you have some statistics for us to back up your claims?

“taking advantage of the typical uninformed hard of hearing.”

- Frankly, if people choose to remain uninformed that is really their problem. Because I accept that such predatory salespeople exist in the industry. In fact it is hard to find an industry that doesn’t have a bad apple in it. But this is all the more reason for people to inform themselves. Most professionals, including myself, would have no problem with more informed patients.

“I am given to understand that these licensed salesmen/dispensers are not salaried but operate on a commission basis.”

- The way that corporations choose to operate themselves, doesn’t make the staff evil. But using logic like this you could tarnish almost any medical or semi-medical profession. A dentist will make a lot more money if he convinces teen’s parents to have the teen fitted with braces in borderline cases. A doctor will make more money generally if he sees more patients, and encourages a patient to visit more often than necessary.

This is America, capitalism rules. This doesn’t make it right, but it doesn’t make hard working professionals wrong, predatory, greedy or unprofessional.

“That they receive more money if they sell the expensive item.”

- In most things in life, you get what you pay for. Certainly in the lineup of hearing aids my company offers there is a direct correlation between price and capability. So in fact it is true in 90% of my patient’s cases that the more they pay, the better they will hear. Hearing better is why they came to see me. If I encourage them to buy cheaply, I am in essence doing them a disservice. That said, just this week I encouraged a patient to select one above the cheapest digital hearing we build. I informed them that beyond that level, based on their loss and lifestyle they were unlikely to tell the difference.

“If taking advantage of the mostly elderly hard of hearing (hoh) is not predatory what is?”

- Of course taking advantage of the elderly hard of hearing is predatory and wrong. Those who do this in an unethical manner risk losing their license temporarily or forever.

“In general, selling hearing aids is a business that wraps itself in the mantle of the medical profession. Anyone that sells an item retail for profit is in business.”

- Well then you’ve just included all doctors, nurses, and medical personal in America in this umbrella then. Because in the entire medical profession a service or product is offered, for a price. In America this price is often not even known or understood up front. The service is given, a bill is over inflated and sent out, the insurance company refuses to pay for as much as they can, and the balance is dumped in the patient’s lap. If they cannot pay or they refuse to pay, the debt is turned over to a collections agency that will harass the patient until they get paid. This debt will be recorded on the patient’s credit for years, which will lower their credit score, and therefore increase the cost of all their borrowing, and often insurance costs. Thus this medical debt can cost the patient thousands of dollars over the years. As I’m sure you are aware medical debt is the number one cause of personal bankruptcy in the US.

At least in my profession, all my consultations are free and without obligation, and if a product or service is offered, it comes with a 30 day money back guarantee, no hidden costs, and a fixed and agreed cost up front. This is more than can be said for 80% of the medical industry.

So I ask you again, why your beef with this industry?

“Just because a dispenser of aids has a license does not mean they are holy....pure....or for sure professional. These people have to eat, educate their kids, make house payments, pay the office rent.”

- And each and every one of them know that once false move and they may lose their license along with the very manner that they pay the above mentioned bills. Only an idiot would take that risk with ethics.

Do idiots exist? Of course they do. Should a buyer beware? Absolutely. Should you be slamming an entire industry and the professionals working in it simply because you have seen some disgruntled people complaining in Internet forums? No.

Can I hire ZCT as my lawyer???

[ed121]

Someone mentioned that they bought a 32 Channel aid for $xxx.

There are no 32 Channel aids on the market. For highly technical reasons 32 Channels would be difficult to achieve and even if done would present high battery drain and slow through-put time. And who needs 32 channels? 4 or 5 Channels are all that is needed for the vast majority of hoh persons. In a limited number of hoh persons with severe losses and dead hair cells, more channels may provide better control and notching.

I am talking about Channels here...,..not bands. A Channel provides multiple conditioning of the sound (compression, gain, knee point, etc.).

A Band does just one thing like control the gain on a narrow band (Equalizer) or a noise Band provides attenuation of a narrow band when noise is present in that band. Ed, Ed121, Ed@Lake same guy, different computers.

[Neilk]

I am not in the ha business. I have purchased two pairs of hearing aids at two different local dealers, one a chain, the other not when I bought there but became after the fact. I have to totally disagree with Ed as to predatory salesmen and "wraps itself in the mantle of the medical profession." Since when did the medical profession not become money hungry and holier than thou for one? When he states that he himself had 7 great experiences but read elsewhere about mostly bad ones ... ??? Where does reading on line qualify one to make a statement like that saying that all, or even any, ha salesmen are predatory rip-off artists? Both my experiences so far have been great, and I would go back to either one. The first was further from home, 20 miles further, which is the reason I changed to the second. I looked at the prices on line, but prefer paying more myself for the more personal experience and the followup care that goes with it. When I had to have my aids repaired, both the first set Siemens and the 2nd set Phonak, I was given loaners ... somethng you don't get with on line mail them in for repair or settings. At a minimum of 3 days turn-around if you spring for overnight shipping and they fix them and reship them the day they get them, good luck with that, that would be 3+ days without hearing. Being a working fool, taking phone calls for tech support ... no way could I go an occasional 3+ days without hearing.

Sure, I pay more, more than I'd like to ... but I have so far gotten great service and personal care for that extra. Both places have suggested bringing them in 4 times a year for a full cleaning and any adjustments desired. And both places have stressed that I do not have to wait 3 months if they need further tuning or I encounter a problem, but that they could usually squeeze me in that day if not within 2 or 3 days. In fact, some places on line have quoted about the same prices I have paid even, but offer cheaper alternatives. I have lifetime service at no extra charge for the aids I have bought.

And for the record ... I totally agree with ZCT, and I do not understand why Ed is being so bitter. Perhaps age.

[jchunter]

Someone mentioned that they bought a 32 Channel aid for $xxx.

There are no 32 Channel aids on the market. For highly technical reasons 32 Channels would be difficult to achieve and even if done would present high battery drain and slow through-put time. And who needs 32 channels? 4 or 5 Channels are all that is needed for the vast majority of hoh persons. In a limited number of hoh persons with severe losses and dead hair cells, more channels may provide better control and notching.

I am talking about Channels here...,..not bands. A Channel provides multiple conditioning of the sound (compression, gain, knee point, etc.).

A Band does just one thing like control the gain on a narrow band (Equalizer) or a noise Band provides attenuation of a narrow band when noise is present in that band. Ed, Ed121, Ed@Lake same guy, different computers.IMO, there is a terminology problem in discussing / comparing the features of hearing aids. The words: channels, bands, programs, etc. have context sensitive shades of meaning. Moreover, it depends on whether the reference is to the DSP hardware, firmware, or what ends up in the HA product, itself. For example, the DSP may have a 16-band equalizer but the adjusting software may only be able to tweak 9 of them...

For example, see the spec for one of the latest and greatest DSP chips http://www.sounddesigntechnologies.com/pdf/47997_DS_Rev1.pdf

On the first page you will see that the word "bands" is used to describe noise reduction (128-band Adaptive Noise Reduction) and the sound equalizer ( 16-bands). "Channel", here, refers to the level of WDRC loudness compression. There are also Serial I/O channels. On page 14, we have: " narrow-band" noise..." etc.

Bottom line, we will have to be careful to fully spell out these meanings when comparing hearing aids.

[renderit]

I have seen several 32 channels. Phonak has one of them. As to only needing 4-5, try that with cookie bite. 14 is just getting me into them now. 20 would be better.

[Hearcare]

Nice to hear Neilk's comments. We try our very best to offer personal service like Neilk has commented on and our clients I think keep coming back for this reason.

[Hearcare]

PS..Ed the Phonak Exelia has a 33 channel adaptive directional microphone.

[Dick4295]

One problem I found with the online purchase recently (2 weeks ago) is that you can't chose the audiologist for fitting. One online provider gave me the choice of two audiologist's in the D.C. area. One of these he said he didn't have much experience with so he recommended the other one. The other company gave me one about 75 miles away.

I decided to go to the audiologist that I had used for many years and he gave me a price very comparable to the online providers. Talk to your audiologist, many will try to keep your business by lowering the price.

[jchunter]

One problem I found with the online purchase recently (2 weeks ago) is that you can't chose the audiologist for fitting. One online provider gave me the choice of two audiologist's in the D.C. area. One of these he said he didn't have much experience with so he recommended the other one. The other company gave me one about 75 miles away.

I decided to go to the audiologist that I had used for many years and he gave me a price very comparable to the online providers. Talk to your audiologist, many will try to keep your business by lowering the price.That information is wrong. You can use any audi with America Hears. Moreover, I seriously doubt that an audi will sell you a high quality (i.e., ADRO, directional mics, noise cancellation / rejection, etc.) HA for $1000. What was the exact make, model and price for the audi's HA?

[Dick4295]

That information is wrong. You can use any audi with America Hears. Moreover, I seriously doubt that an audi will sell you a high quality (i.e., ADRO, directional mics, noise cancellation / rejection, etc.) HA for $1000. What was the exact make, model and price for the audi's HA?

I didn't say it was American Hears nor did I say I paid $1000. I did pay $3200 for Phonak Exelia with the iCOM that were on the internet by two of these companies for about the same or slightly more. It was two others that are fairly large, I understand. I don't want to name them or bad mouth them on the internet. I don't believe in that.

[jchunter]

I didn't say it was American Hears nor did I say I paid $1000. I did pay $3200 for Phonak Exelia with the iCOM that were on the internet by two of these companies for about the same or slightly more. It was two others that are fairly large, I understand. I don't want to name them or bad mouth them on the internet. I don't believe in that. Well, your experience is important information for the rest of us. You found web sites that sold high priced Exelias for a discount but (evidently) provided no pre or post sales service or support? I think it is appropriate to name names and prices, otherwise the information is of limited use. After all, if you buy a TV set that fails and can't get support, it is important to name the seller, brand, and model to prevent others from making the same mistake.

[xbulder]

I have seen several 32 channels. Phonak has one of them. As to only needing 4-5, try that with cookie bite. 14 is just getting me into them now. 20 would be better.
the number of channels is as important as the bandwith...
if the bandwith is narrow having 30 something channels perhaps it is not so important...

[BayBeTime]

BayBeTime what is your objective posting here?

In looking through their website even their $1600 aid was not 32 channel plus it was based on old digital technology. Did I miss something when reviewing the site?

OK no reply needed because I can see you spammed the entire forum today.

Obviously you have No Real Clue: after your comment, i had been on the phone with AccuTone several times. Finally they provided me with a contact who manufactures the Hybrid Circuit. I called the company internationally and they were able to send me detailed documentation on my circuit type. Here is a response also from AccuToneUSA.......

Also, you looked at the ENGLISH portion of AccuToneUSA.com I told you I bought in Peru. BIG PRICE DIFFERENCE. ANYWAY, you seem to have social issues, thats why you answered my post like that. Sorry that I was just trying to spread the good word about a company that made me super happy!

"Modern digital Aids have 4 to 20 separate channels. Theoretically the more
channels the closer you can come to matching a persons loss curve. In
actual practice 4 channels are enough to fit 95% of the losses. A noise reduction channel is a portion of the audio spectrum that
analyzes the input signal and if it decides noise is present on it's
channel will initiate a reduction in overall gain in that particular
channel only. Some aids have from 4 to 32 noise channels...................."


Also looks like many people in this same forum backed me in talking about other 32 AND 33 ch hearing aids.

[xbulder]

Obviously you have No Real Clue: after your comment, i had been on the phone with AccuTone several times. Finally they provided me with a contact who manufactures the Hybrid Circuit. I called the company internationally and they were able to send me detailed documentation on my circuit type. Here is a response also from AccuToneUSA.......

Also, you looked at the ENGLISH portion of AccuToneUSA.com I told you I bought in Peru. BIG PRICE DIFFERENCE. ANYWAY, you seem to have social issues, thats why you answered my post like that. Sorry that I was just trying to spread the good word about a company that made me super happy!

"Modern digital Aids have 4 to 20 separate channels. Theoretically the more
channels the closer you can come to matching a persons loss curve. In
actual practice 4 channels are enough to fit 95% of the losses. A noise reduction channel is a portion of the audio spectrum that
analyzes the input signal and if it decides noise is present on it's
channel will initiate a reduction in overall gain in that particular
channel only. Some aids have from 4 to 32 noise channels...................."


Also looks like many people in this same forum backed me in talking about other 32 AND 33 ch hearing aids.

it also depends on the bandwith. having a instrument with a narrow bandwith with a 32 channels do not make sense....

Most instruments out have something between 8-16 channels...

[BayBeTime]

the number of channels is as important as the bandwith...
if the bandwith is narrow having 30 something channels perhaps it is not so important...
the 32 ch hearing aids i see have widebands of 16K

[Neilk]

Obviously you have No Real Clue: after your comment, i had been on the phone with AccuTone several times. Finally they provided me with a contact who manufactures the Hybrid Circuit. I called the company internationally and they were able to send me detailed documentation on my circuit type. Here is a response also from AccuToneUSA.......

Also, you looked at the ENGLISH portion of AccuToneUSA.com I told you I bought in Peru. BIG PRICE DIFFERENCE. ANYWAY, you seem to have social issues, thats why you answered my post like that. Sorry that I was just trying to spread the good word about a company that made me super happy!

"Modern digital Aids have 4 to 20 separate channels. Theoretically the more
channels the closer you can come to matching a persons loss curve. In
actual practice 4 channels are enough to fit 95% of the losses. A noise reduction channel is a portion of the audio spectrum that
analyzes the input signal and if it decides noise is present on it's
channel will initiate a reduction in overall gain in that particular
channel only. Some aids have from 4 to 32 noise channels...................."


Also looks like many people in this same forum backed me in talking about other 32 AND 33 ch hearing aids.

If you look at their web site, there is no mention of anything above 16 bands. Not to mention that most of the links on their site are dead, nothing there works. It states they are located in Florid and Peru. Good luck resolving any issues with a company that is located outside the US or the UK. You were two months replying to a post questioning yours, and those were your only few posts here. What type of reception do you expect other than one suspecting you of spamming?

[BayBeTime]

If you look at their web site, there is no mention of anything above 16 bands. Not to mention that most of the links on their site are dead, nothing there works. It states they are located in Florid and Peru. Good luck resolving any issues with a company that is located outside the US or the UK. You were two months replying to a post questioning yours, and those were your only few posts here. What type of reception do you expect other than one suspecting you of spamming?

what site do you have for them? I have www.accutoneusa.com/spanish_mainpage.htm in my favorites

but i also see teh site is different now at www.accutoneusa.com

as for the time delay, i am not much for chatting. i was just looking for other opinions on this company when i found this site.

[BayBeTime]

i dont know if you read the beginning of my posts, but i did mention that it was C.O.D using dhl. so there was no risk, i just sent the ear impressions down there. i too dont have much confidence in business outside usa or uk

[xbulder]

i dont know if you read the beginning of my posts, but i did mention that it was C.O.D using dhl. so there was no risk, i just sent the ear impressions down there. i too dont have much confidence in business outside usa or uk

if they are based in FL, why dont they send the instruments directly from the US?, if there is a claim issue you could not complain with a US authoritie right since it is an overseas transaction right?

[Neilk]

if they are based in FL, why dont they send the instruments directly from the US?, if there is a claim issue you could not complain with a US authoritie right since it is an overseas transaction right?

And if they are not based in Florida but in Peru as it appears ... why are they calling themselves Accutone USA? If they ship from Peru, is their Florida facility just a drop box so they can claim they are from the USA? They give little or no information on their web site ... a bit of a red flag. Their contact information is just a phone number and email address, no street mailing address ... another red flag. The price you mentioned paying is quoted as being their entry level digital model ... not a fancy one from the sounds of it ... although again ... there is no real information given ... big red flag.

[xbulder]

And if they are not based in Florida but in Peru as it appears ... why are they calling themselves Accutone USA? If they ship from Peru, is their Florida facility just a drop box so they can claim they are from the USA? They give little or no information on their web site ... a bit of a red flag. Their contact information is just a phone number and email address, no street mailing address ... another red flag. The price you mentioned paying is quoted as being their entry level digital model ... not a fancy one from the sounds of it ... although again ... there is no real information given ... big red flag.

Again, if you buy from them. Make sure, you are protected by US Law.
to me it sounds strange that if they did indeed have a US Office they will send the imp. to peru to manuf the aids and have them return to you here.
When the alt. is to have it done in the US like all the companies do..

[BayBeTime]

if they are based in FL, why dont they send the instruments directly from the US?, if there is a claim issue you could not complain with a US authoritie right since it is an overseas transaction right?


My credit card was billed from the USA, not in PERU, my credit card statement gives the same phone as their website. I am not too worried about claims, as i have saved a HUGE amount of money, and being that my entire transaction was COD, this built the confidence I needed to doing an international transaction. Every time i called, i left a message and i would be called back usually the same day. Also, I call him yesterday, his name is DOUG, speaks PERFECT ENGLISH, so I know he is not of foreign nationality. When I asked him about being protected under USA laws, he told me that he can draft a contract or purchase agreement using his USA address, passport number and driverslicense number. When i asked him about his USA address, he told me that he has lived in peru for 3 years and his legal address is in USA.

He has a laboratory of 3 workers, apparently he is a small company. When I google accutoneusa, he is all over the place, mostly in spanish, but i see tons of videos on youtube and other places.

He also provided me with 2 other people who purchased from him, One being in Texas and the other being in California. I intend to call these people this week.

Again, I started this forum simply because i was looking to find more info on them, I could not believe the pricing i got.

I took the hearing aids to a repair guy yesterday for a basic cleaning and asked him to verify the hearing aid is truly 32 ch. He explained to me that my hearing aid is from Germany, has 32 channels and 128 channels of noise reduction, he too could not believe the pricing.

Overall, I am impressed, just to say the least, Good Product, HUGE Savings, and I am proud to mention that company here.

[Gale]

Someone mentioned that they bought a 32 Channel aid for $xxx.

There are no 32 Channel aids on the market. For highly technical reasons 32 Channels would be difficult to achieve and even if done would present high battery drain and slow through-put time. And who needs 32 channels? 4 or 5 Channels are all that is needed for the vast majority of hoh persons. In a limited number of hoh persons with severe losses and dead hair cells, more channels may provide better control and notching.

I am talking about Channels here...,..not bands. A Channel provides multiple conditioning of the sound (compression, gain, knee point, etc.).

A Band does just one thing like control the gain on a narrow band (Equalizer) or a noise Band provides attenuation of a narrow band when noise is present in that band. Ed, Ed121, Ed@Lake same guy, different computers.

Ed like you I find it hard to not be behind on the technology out there. 32 channels have been out of a few years but they may be used to manage different things. My 32 channel America Hears has nine points on the "Equalizer" bar function as you call it. Other channels are free on monitor other functions. You can read more on the web or just call America Hears. I like mine.

[xbulder]

My credit card was billed from the USA, not in PERU, my credit card statement gives the same phone as their website. I am not too worried about claims, as i have saved a HUGE amount of money, and being that my entire transaction was COD, this built the confidence I needed to doing an international transaction. Every time i called, i left a message and i would be called back usually the same day. Also, I call him yesterday, his name is DOUG, speaks PERFECT ENGLISH, so I know he is not of foreign nationality. When I asked him about being protected under USA laws, he told me that he can draft a contract or purchase agreement using his USA address, passport number and driverslicense number. When i asked him about his USA address, he told me that he has lived in peru for 3 years and his legal address is in USA.

He has a laboratory of 3 workers, apparently he is a small company. When I google accutoneusa, he is all over the place, mostly in spanish, but i see tons of videos on youtube and other places.

He also provided me with 2 other people who purchased from him, One being in Texas and the other being in California. I intend to call these people this week.

Again, I started this forum simply because i was looking to find more info on them, I could not believe the pricing i got.

I took the hearing aids to a repair guy yesterday for a basic cleaning and asked him to verify the hearing aid is truly 32 ch. He explained to me that my hearing aid is from Germany, has 32 channels and 128 channels of noise reduction, he too could not believe the pricing.

Overall, I am impressed, just to say the least, Good Product, HUGE Savings, and I am proud to mention that company here.

As for the repair guy, for the audis or His out there, if I put an instrument
in an analizer with out the fitting software. How do I know it has x number of channels. is this even posible?. Ill ask my friend @ audioscan, maybe there is something for me to learn

[xbulder]

My credit card was billed from the USA, not in PERU, my credit card statement gives the same phone as their website. I am not too worried about claims, as i have saved a HUGE amount of money, and being that my entire transaction was COD, this built the confidence I needed to doing an international transaction. Every time i called, i left a message and i would be called back usually the same day. Also, I call him yesterday, his name is DOUG, speaks PERFECT ENGLISH, so I know he is not of foreign nationality. When I asked him about being protected under USA laws, he told me that he can draft a contract or purchase agreement using his USA address, passport number and driverslicense number. When i asked him about his USA address, he told me that he has lived in peru for 3 years and his legal address is in USA.

He has a laboratory of 3 workers, apparently he is a small company. When I google accutoneusa, he is all over the place, mostly in spanish, but i see tons of videos on youtube and other places.

He also provided me with 2 other people who purchased from him, One being in Texas and the other being in California. I intend to call these people this week.

Again, I started this forum simply because i was looking to find more info on them, I could not believe the pricing i got.

I took the hearing aids to a repair guy yesterday for a basic cleaning and asked him to verify the hearing aid is truly 32 ch. He explained to me that my hearing aid is from Germany, has 32 channels and 128 channels of noise reduction, he too could not believe the pricing.

Overall, I am impressed, just to say the least, Good Product, HUGE Savings, and I am proud to mention that company here.

So I call my friends @ audiscan, which is one of the largest HI analizer companies. This is a 1 product company- they only sell this thing.
Basically he said, he send me a 24 paper wrote by James Kates (from the dept. of Veteran affairs) which describes the way to do this. to be honest it is quite complex and not something you would do easily. That said, I would seriously doubt this tecnitian was able to quickly do it...

I am also good friends with the people of frye, I will ask them... George frye
has almost a lifetime building this machines.. He would know this for sure.

[BayBeTime]

As for the repair guy, for the audis or His out there, if I put an instrument
in an analizer with out the fitting software. How do I know it has x number of channels. is this even posible?. Ill ask my friend @ audioscan, maybe there is something for me to learn

The Fitting software called AccuSpeed was included for my doctor to fine tune. I still have the CD if you want me to email it to you.

[BayBeTime]

WoW, all i did was just mention a name. look what happen. non stop controversy.

Anyway,
The Fitting software called AccuSpeed was included on CD for my doctor to fine tune. I still have the CD if you want me to email it to you. Also, he told me that on the back of the circuit inside the hearing aid is a serial or code that matched with a product from a manufacturer he knows.

Bottom Line, I bought a TOP hearing aid for what most pay for analog or basic digital. Wasn't a Bad deal, my product was COD, the only upfront cost was a $100 ear impression and shipping to South America.

I also found out that a hearing aid only cost $280 to make (not including the companies market research and development, bluetooth or other features), so those paying $5,000 for top brands are really getting screwed.

This is my last post here. NEVER thought i would have sooo many negative replys. My intentions were to simply mention an american guy in Peru who has a great business, selling at 75-80% less than others

[xbulder]

talk to my friends @ frye....

they said I could run an Input output curve and see the comp. ratios.

the problem is that most equip will run about 3 or 4 comp ratios

so there is no way to check the number or channels in a practical manner...

[jchunter]

WoW, all i did was just mention a name. look what happen. non stop controversy.

Anyway,
The Fitting software called AccuSpeed was included on CD for my doctor to fine tune. I still have the CD if you want me to email it to you. Also, he told me that on the back of the circuit inside the hearing aid is a serial or code that matched with a product from a manufacturer he knows.

Bottom Line, I bought a TOP hearing aid for what most pay for analog or basic digital. Wasn't a Bad deal, my product was COD, the only upfront cost was a $100 ear impression and shipping to South America.

I also found out that a hearing aid only cost $280 to make (not including the companies market research and development, bluetooth or other features), so those paying $5,000 for top brands are really getting screwed.

This is my last post here. NEVER thought i would have sooo many negative replys. My intentions were to simply mention an american guy in Peru who has a great business, selling at 75-80% less than othersDon't stop posting! You have provided valuable information about some new, alternative sales / distribution channels for hearing aids. There will be more of these as this industry evolves from outrageous prices to competitive prices.

You have provided hard evidence of what many of us, with engineering experience, have stated - that it costs very little to assemble a hearing aid and that a fair PRICE for an excellent digital hearing is a few hundred dollars! These will work well for those with mild to moderate hearing loss. (Users with profound hearing loss may have to pay extra for personalized fitting and adjustment service.)

There will be other new distribution channels springing up, with similar low prices. Some will be legit and some will be rip-offs. It will be important for buyers to report experiences on this forum so that we can formulate a "seller reliability index". So far, AmericaHears.com has provided good pre and post sales support for its products. I predict that its prices will get lower as sales volume builds.

[Gale]

JC it is the web so thick skin is required. Look at the TV shows today and they make slamming others see like a national sport.

[zafdor]

You have provided hard evidence of what many of us, with engineering experience, have stated - that it costs very little to assemble a hearing aid and that a fair PRICE for an excellent digital hearing is a few hundred dollars!

I disagree. The OP has posted a confusing bunch of information as heresay which is why he is being viewed upon as a scammer/troll.

Nobody denies the base manufacruring costs for even a high end instrument is above $100.

[dreganism]

ZCT:
" In general, selling hearing aids is a business that wraps itself in the mantle of the medical profession.............."

I've never met a doctor who was not aware that they were practicing medicine wrapped in the capitalist mantle of the profit motive. Some may care less about money, but they all know how much they get paid at the end of the year.

[Kellymom]

I went on ebay looking for a hearing aid because I can't seem to hear out of my right ear much anymore. My brother also had hearing problems due to our previous doctor letting an ear infection go to long and he had to have tubes put in his ear but I think they are out now but sometimes he still has trouble.

[Barrie]

Hello all,

I am new to this community and I have been looking around the internet for pricing on Hearing Aids. My wife tells me that I have needed hearing aids for quite some time now :rolleyes: I was wondering if anyone had had experience with http://www.aidright.com. Their prices seem to be lower than Hearingplanet.com. Another good website is http://www.ahearingaid.com. Does anyone else know of any other websites where I can look at prices of hearing aids or have any experience with these internet companies?

Thank you!

Qwertz1,

There is a great deal of confusion out there and I hope this does not add to it. :) I am a retired physician with no link to the hearing loss side of things but just bought two Phonak Smart IXs through Aidright.
For someone short of hearing there are separate stages in dealing with the hearing loss issue.
1. The first is the cause. Is there a disease process here that needs to be/can be treated? Or is it either congenital or a matter of aging? This is something that requires an ENT evaluation. At that time, one of the considerations will be whether there is a gross difference in the audiogram for the two sides, since this raises the possibility of a tumor.
2. The next stage is the evaluation of the patient in terms of his activities, degree and nature of hearing level required (e.g. musician versus library reader, versus waiter in a noisy restaurant), and the nature of the audiogram. This is something that an audiologist can evaluate for you, and recommend a hearing aid and/or other form of enhancement. Do not get too caught up in all of the discussion about how many makes of aid a given audiologist can install and service. It is inevitable that any audiologist will be most comfortable with one or two makes over others for a host of legitimate reasons.
3. The third stage comes when one is armed with the knowledge as to what level of hearing enhancement one requires and a recommended brand or two. Your knowledge on this, including pricing, can be helped greatly by the web and one should not downplay or badmouth this important tool of daily living. One can buy an aid and program it oneself but this is not for most of us if we want to do the best to improve our hearing. Why threaten maximizing the use of the investment right from the start? A better option is perhaps to go to websites such as Aidright that are really brokers who have a referral network of audiologists/dispensers who have agreed to sell, fit and service new aids from the top manufacturers. The aids I bought today came from an audiologist to whom I was referred by Aidright, one of the most experienced audiologists in the area with full warranty and service (and 3 years free batteries :)) for about $1,000 off retail for each aid!
4. The fourth stage is that of adjustments after the original instalation. These personalized tweeks to a digital aid are an essential part of the whole thing and my contract gives me five years of adjustments as part of the original price.
5. Finally there is the issue of warranties that may differ greatly with source of purchase, plus the fact that there are all sorts of rascals out there selling second-hand items and discards/seconds as new items. Caveat emptor!

[LMastree]

Qwertz1,

There is a great deal of confusion out there and I hope this does not add to it. :) I am a retired physician with no link to the hearing loss side of things but just bought two Phonak Smart IXs through Aidright.
For someone short of hearing there are separate stages in dealing with the hearing loss issue.
1. The first is the cause. Is there a disease process here that needs to be/can be treated? Or is it either congenital or a matter of aging? This is something that requires an ENT evaluation. At that time, one of the considerations will be whether there is a gross difference in the audiogram for the two sides, since this raises the possibility of a tumor.
2. The next stage is the evaluation of the patient in terms of his activities, degree and nature of hearing level required (e.g. musician versus library reader, versus waiter in a noisy restaurant), and the nature of the audiogram. This is something that an audiologist can evaluate for you, and recommend a hearing aid and/or other form of enhancement. Do not get too caught up in all of the discussion about how many makes of aid a given audiologist can install and service. It is inevitable that any audiologist will be most comfortable with one or two makes over others for a host of legitimate reasons.
3. The third stage comes when one is armed with the knowledge as to what level of hearing enhancement one requires and a recommended brand or two. Your knowledge on this, including pricing, can be helped greatly by the web and one should not downplay or badmouth this important tool of daily living. One can buy an aid and program it oneself but this is not for most of us if we want to do the best to improve our hearing. Why threaten maximizing the use of the investment right from the start? A better option is perhaps to go to websites such as Aidright that are really brokers who have a referral network of audiologists/dispensers who have agreed to sell, fit and service new aids from the top manufacturers. The aids I bought today came from an audiologist to whom I was referred by Aidright, one of the most experienced audiologists in the area with full warranty and service (and 3 years free batteries :)) for about $1,000 off retail for each aid!
4. The fourth stage is that of adjustments after the original instalation. These personalized tweeks to a digital aid are an essential part of the whole thing and my contract gives me five years of adjustments as part of the original price.
5. Finally there is the issue of warranties that may differ greatly with source of purchase, plus the fact that there are all sorts of rascals out there selling second-hand items and discards/seconds as new items. Caveat emptor!
Barrie,
How does one determine if your audiologist is selling second-hand items and discards/seconds as new items? Does your Phonak hearing aid have the model "Smart IX" written anywhere on it? I have the Smart IX and it has Phonak on the side and Audeo on the bottom. When I asked my audi why it didn't have "Smart IX" on it she said she didn't know. I don't have total confidence in the audiologist I ended up with, unfortunately. Right or wrong, I tend to question everything she does/saysbased on the fact that her info about REM or speech mapping is totally contradictory to all that I've read.

[EnglishDispenser]

Have you looked for markings in the battery compartment?

[Barrie]

Barrie,
How does one determine if your audiologist is selling second-hand items and discards/seconds as new items? Does your Phonak hearing aid have the model "Smart IX" written anywhere on it? I have the Smart IX and it has Phonak on the side and Audeo on the bottom. When I asked my audi why it didn't have "Smart IX" on it she said she didn't know. I don't have total confidence in the audiologist I ended up with, unfortunately. Right or wrong, I tend to question everything she does/saysbased on the fact that her info about REM or speech mapping is totally contradictory to all that I've read.
The manual that comes with the aids shows you how to interpret the serial number. Unfortunately, they show the wrong location for the Smart IX. Open the battery door with that end of the aid towards you and the volume button upwards. The number (in very small figures) is in two rows on the main body, below the electrical connector. Once you have it you can call Phonak and confirm that it was sold as a new item to your provider?

[LMastree]

Have you looked for markings in the battery compartment?
Thanks - I just looked where you suggested and the model Smart IX is imprinted there. I had to use a magnifying glass to read it so I guess that's why I didn't notice it before.