Need help with Phonak M h20 aids - issues with feedback

[amylucinhaf]

My 11-year old daughter has been begging for water-proof/resistant hearing aids for years. This year, they seemed closer to reality, so we ordered a pair of Solana M h20s. We also got a pair of Ambra Micro Ps to serve as her main aids, because she can't go without aids if we have to send the Solana M h20s in for issues caused by water damage.

(I know...2 pairs! We are very lucky, and learned that it is possible to get aids at a VERY reduced price through our state school for the deaf. Please spread the word...I was shocked this was something I knew nothing of, as I consider myself an aggressively informed parent!!!! It's now my mission to make sure other parents check into this possiblity for themselves!)

Moving on....

We picked them up and fitted them Wednesday...she was so excited. Unfortunately, her excitement lasted exactly 10 minutes. From the moment they got the slightest bit wet, she got such incredible feedback that it was painful to her. Just dipping the aid on the surface of the water caused the problem. Lifting the aid out stopped the feedback. If she held the aid under for a few seconds or more, it would take a bit longer to stop the feedback after she lifted her head out of the water. My presumption is that the microphones are getting occluded by water and that is what's causing the feedback.

So, I have one very sad little girl, and no idea what's going on. I have a call in to Phonak's consumer line, but nowadays, you have to leave a message and they'll call back within 2 days. We have an appointment this afternoon with the audiologist...I'm just hoping to get any insights anyone here may have.

Thanks!

Amy

[IMBack]

5. Care and maintenance
Diligent and routine care of your hearing aid
contributes to outstanding performance and a long
service life.
Please use the following specifications as a guideline:
General information
Before using hair spray or applying cosmetics, you
should remove your hearing aid from your ear, because
these products may damage it.
M H2O is WaterResistant!
M H2O hearing aids are resistant to water (including
temporary immersion), sweat and dust under the
following conditions:
J The battery door is fully closed. Ensure that no
foreign object such as hair is caught in the battery
door when it is closed.
J After exposure to water, sweat or dust, the hearing
aid is rinsed in fresh water and dried.
J The hearing aid is used and maintained as described
in this user guide.
M H2O hearing aids modified with either the designintegrated
FM receiver or tamperproof battery door
are also WaterResistant.
M H2O hearing aids modified with a battery
compartment allowing use of an audio shoe and
universal FM receiver, are no longer WaterResistant.
Always remove your hearing aid before diving,
snorkeling, waterskiing or other activities where it
could be immersed for an extended period of time
or subject to excessive force.
Use of your hearing aid in and around water can
restrict air flow to the batteries causing it to stop
working. Should your hearing aid stop working
after coming into contact with water, refer to the
troubleshooting steps in chapter 6.

[seb]

Amy,
The Solana M H2O is water resistant not water proof, the IP 67 testing only tests for water resistance not for immersion. If you want a waterproof hearing aid you will have to buy the Seimens Aquaris which is the only waterproof hearing aid on the market; being able to withstand immersion for at least 30 minutes at a depth of 3 feet. In order to remain waterproof the Seimens Aquaris must be serviced yearly and have all its seals replaced though Seimens.

[amylucinhaf]

Thanks for the quick responses.

Yes, we realize all those things. And this was not a snorkeling, diving, forceful water situation. This was nothing more than the aid breaking the surface of the water as she leaned her head over to get it wet. In fact, it was probably less exposure than the rinsing instructions in the owner's manual!

But....our problem was NOT a failure of the aids because of water exposure. The aids worked just fine! The feedback being the proof! And, of course, their continuing functioning after exposure, etc.


I'm just looking for suggestions for tweaking the fitting that might help reduce feedback when microphones are occluded with water.

Thanks.

[amylucinhaf]

On a side note, the Aquaris and the M h20 have the same water ingression ratings. (The 5 in the Siemens rating indicates a lower dust ingression rating than the Phonak.) I'm not sure why one markets water-proof while the other markets water-resistent, yet they have and publish the same water ingression rating.


Phonak M h20 rating:

* IP67 indicates that the hearing aid was not damaged beyond repair after 8 hours in a dust chamber, nor after being immersed in 1 meter (3 feet) of water for 30 minutes as defined by IEC60529.

Siemens Aquaris rating:
*Achieved IP57 rating per IEC 60529 Standard. Device can be completely submerged in water up to 3 feet for 30 minutes with no damage to instrument and dust will not interfere with the satisfactory operation of the device.

But, again....damage was not our issue.

[seb]

Amy,
I believe with the Aquaris you have to have specific earmolds for the HA's to work properly around or in water. You could always do a test and plug the vent holes in the mold with cotton and see if you get the feedback when the aids get wet. However, a call to the audiologist might also bring some answers. Good luck!

[momtoahohteen]

Originally Posted by amylucinhaf

My 11-year old daughter has been begging for water-proof/resistant hearing aids for years. This year, they seemed closer to reality, so we ordered a pair of Solana M h20s. We also got a pair of Ambra Micro Ps to serve as her main aids, because she can't go without aids if we have to send the Solana M h20s in for issues caused by water damage.

(I know...2 pairs! We are very lucky, and learned that it is possible to get aids at a VERY reduced price through our state school for the deaf. Please spread the word...I was shocked this was something I knew nothing of, as I consider myself an aggressively informed parent!!!! It's now my mission to make sure other parents check into this possiblity for themselves!)

Moving on....

We picked them up and fitted them Wednesday...she was so excited. Unfortunately, her excitement lasted exactly 10 minutes. From the moment they got the slightest bit wet, she got such incredible feedback that it was painful to her. Just dipping the aid on the surface of the water caused the problem. Lifting the aid out stopped the feedback. If she held the aid under for a few seconds or more, it would take a bit longer to stop the feedback after she lifted her head out of the water. My presumption is that the microphones are getting occluded by water and that is what's causing the feedback.

So, I have one very sad little girl, and no idea what's going on. I have a call in to Phonak's consumer line, but nowadays, you have to leave a message and they'll call back within 2 days. We have an appointment this afternoon with the audiologist...I'm just hoping to get any insights anyone here may have.

Thanks!

Amy

Hello,

We are currently looking at the H20's now. Our audio said they were good up to 3 feet deep and never mentioned a time frame. Other hearing aid centers I have called said they were not good but for 30 seconds in water. I like yourself this will be water sport hearing aide. But not sure if we will go with phonak or seimens.

May I ask what state you relieved discounted HA in? My son also goes to a school for the deaf and hog nd nothing was mentioned to us.

We currently have oticon chili's he likes them pretty well. I noticed he doesn't use the Bluetooth as much anymore.

[amylucinhaf]

Oh, geez...I just typed and lost a whole response...

(Missouri, for the school for the deaf question.)

The retyped short version:

Phonak sent us a new pair of aids because the squealing behavior wasn't expected. Second set did the same thing. Phonak's answer is that the aids can't really be used in water; just use them for splashing.

My guess is that the aids just can't deal with the microphone occlusion. Our test involved the tiniest dip of just the microphones in water; I'm guessing we'd even see the same behavior if a drop of water were dropped onto the microphone, so I fail to see how the 'use for splashing' option will work any better, other than you could wipe off the microphones faster to get rid of the water.

My take....if you want aids that will survive (and be warrantied) when wet, get the Phonak M H20s. However, don't have high expectations about having the aids function well when wet.

We're going to try the Siemens Aquaris; their website actually says you can use them for swimming, when set up appropriately. I assumed (doh...my first mistake!) that the Aquaris and the MH20s having the same IPx7 rating meant that they would function the same way when wet.

I'll try to get back here and update when I can.

I have the Phonak Naidas and as soon as water hits my micophones from the rain, they feedback like crazy.

I've been told its how they are fitted to your loss. My Audi offered to change the fitting to stop it but I said its ok as I'm hearing well so I use ear gear as mine do not have the same rating as yours. Mine is a lower water resistant rating.