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[john lloyd]

PS - Why does everyone else hide behind pseudonyms?

[john lloyd]

Glucas - i don't understand how you think me 'harranging' ED would increase my market share? I simply think it would be wiser to promote all aids, which is better for the client. And if he did, then surely he would then open up his own market, not increase mine? But now i guess you'll accuse me of being a philanthropist again...! I can't win...!

I want the web to reflect what's best for the client - believe me on that. The point is, independents now have the edge over Amplifon and Hidden Hearing, who have dominated at high prices for too long. This is how so many customers have become dissalussioned about it all. Not sure why any custumer who has worn aids for any period of time would not understand that?
Anyway - he answered me, albeit not very constructively, and i gave a fair reply. So it should have ended there between us two.

[canthearmuch]

I'm a hearing aid user that sells IT for a living - direct and via the channel......not a hidden dispenser.

Nobody said a Zest equals the Agil. My point was/is that the NHS Zest is free, available to all with a short leadtime and perfectly adequate for many needs where the bells and whistles don't represent enough added value to justify the bank loan (my Mother, for instance).


It will be interesting to see how you get on if/when you grow more and ask for extra discounts (to pass on to your customers, naturally).

The "big 3" will (I believe) give you the choice of selling the branded models at pricing similar to what you get now (so their mass market is not killed off) OR (like their other "bulk" customers, the NHS and Specsavers) switching to a "blind" model where you have special model names (like the Zest) or your own brand (like Specsavers)...and therefore the marketing of disparate instruments becomes your job instead of theirs.

Should be interesting to watch.

[john lloyd]

The internet guys will never be big enough for that to happen. It infuriates me that clients cannot directly compare hearing aids - why are Hidden Hearing etc allowed to sell aids with model names that don't even appear on the manufactueres websites? How can this not be misleading to the client.

I for one would not sell re-branded aids. I also do not plan to grow - as I mentioned i work in a group of affiliates, and this is in my opinion the best way it can be managed.

Discounts are already governed by a buying group and will not change for this set up.

The interesting thing to watch is how three of the biggies (HH, Amplifon and Boots) will cope when the internet really gets a hold of the more aged clients. Specsaver's will of course still cope.

[glucas]

Originally Posted by john lloyd

Glucas - i don't understand how you think me 'harranging' ED would increase my market share? I simply think it would be wiser to promote all aids, which is better for the client. And if he did, then surely he would then open up his own market, not increase mine? But now i guess you'll accuse me of being a philanthropist again...! I can't win...!

I want the web to reflect what's best for the client - believe me on that. The point is, independents now have the edge over Amplifon and Hidden Hearing, who have dominated at high prices for too long. This is how so many customers have become dissalussioned about it all. Not sure why any custumer who has worn aids for any period of time would not understand that?
Anyway - he answered me, albeit not very constructively, and i gave a fair reply. So it should have ended there between us two.

I was riled because your price list seems so absolutely depressing.

I would like to retract any personal comments. Your service I'm sure is good, and as somebody who gets out of bed in the morning to earn a living, you should be congratulated. Provided you are not scamming people, and I'm sure you are not.

I'm sure the landscape of hearing aid prices nowadays is very different to 10 to 15 years ago in the UK. I have never been into Amplifon or Hidden Hearing. But I understand your perspective that £3000 is a lot cheaper than £7000.

But you need to understand a couple of points.

The first point is that hearing aid technology is evolving at a rapid rate. It is fair to say that we are receiving almost generational shift improvements every 2 to 3 years. This means that for those who are severely affected by a loss, such as myself, there is a huge desire to get their hands on a top of the line new device.

The second point, related to the first, is that it is very difficult to afford one premium device, let alone keep up with the new releases. I earn an above average salary, but like the vast majority, have commitments, a house, car etc.. So my expectation or hope, which does not match the reality, is that I would want to spend, maximum, around £2000 on a premium device every 3 to 4 years. And my complaint is dwarfed by those who can afford hardly anything at all, and their local NHS provision is rubbish.

So your comments about "realistic" prices hit a nerve. I'm sure you can tell me why my expectations are unrealistic. And I'm sure I would see the logic of the argument. However, I still feel a bit peeved that I am being asked to pay £3000 every 3 to 4 years to keep up with the latest tech. And not receive a penny rebate in the amount of my tax payments that go to fund the NHS.

[john lloyd]

Thats a fair point and i appreciate your retraction.

I used to work for Prestige Hearing and hated getting up everyday misleading people buying a pair of low end hearing aids for £2000 thinking they were the bees knees, because they priced top range aids at £6000-7000 and who can afford that?! It wasnt what i qualified for. So i set up Crystal Hearing with the sole purpose of trying to make top range aids more affordable, or at least upper mid-range aids affordable. The average sale price throughout the UK is £2000 regardless of where you shop - but it can be a big difference between what you get for that £2000 depending on where you shop.

Top range aids cost is a lot of money to buy. The only way to reduce the price is to change the aftercare plan which i do for many clients (different ways, which i dont need to go into). If i knew someone was going to buy every 3-4 years then i would openly give an extra discount on that basis - and then if they didnt they would have to agree to pay for the aftercare for any period after that agreement. I don't think many other dispensers would be that flexible.

Top range aids won't come down much i dont think - it depends on the suppliers. For many independents who don't get the top level Hearbuy discounts, £3000 is hard to sustain for them, especially if they have a branch to run.

[canthearmuch]

Originally Posted by john lloyd

Here you go - i've amended the NHS section

If this isnt satisfactory then i'll realise what your motives are.

Well.....(ignoring your trademark "dig" re motives):

Zest comes in black, silver, red, blue and, er, if you want, beige.

As an open fit device using the Corda2 slim tube (for typical loss), its cosmetically pretty good (its a Vigo shell).

All patients can have one or two aids, the old "one aid only" was before the reforms...they also get REM (at the 6 week tuning session, if indicated to assist with poor satisfaction).

There are lots of NHS aids used, from Oticon, Siemens and (for large losses needing a high-power aid) Phonak.

Connectivity (rather than hearing speech directly) is not the NHSs remit - that falls to Access to Work to help fund if justified. Many "still working" patients have accessed Phonak or Oticon bluetooth solutions, loop and FM kit etc etc this way....with a contribution from the empoyer.


Many do need/want the premium stuff but equally, many just need/want to hear the spouse/kids/grandchildren again.

(my analytical approach, by the way, comes from analysing my channel partners' businesses to see how my kit can help them grow - value selling....so I couldn't resist having a quick nosy at the hearing industry when I needed to use it....)

[john lloyd]

I must add, i wasnt the first to use the internet to try and give a better deal, and ED was up there at the start. I now run a blog which for subscribers is the best way of keeping abreast of developments. And i do lessons on there - that surely isnt for my own benefit!

[john lloyd]

But they are not supplied all over the UK - you are lucky if you can get them.

I still see Oticon Spirit supplied in most places. Anyway - i've covered that part, and i've suggested it as an option. Most people i see are younger than 70 and want ITE discreet aids - and you know what that means don't you...... CIC's! - and thus we have now done a full circle and i think a good place to leave it!!

[john lloyd]

Anyway 'trademark dig' is a bit hard - you were unjustly having a go at me